trying to decide

[johnstephany65]

Hi all,
Need opinions. I currently own a Stevens Projects Weekender that I built. It is not a great sailboat, so I am thinking of upgrading. What I do like about it is that with the pulpit set up with a Gaff rig, I leave the mainsail on, and thus am able to go from showing up at the marina to being in the water sailing in about 15 minutes. What I don't like:
terrible sailing performance. can barely tack due to the full length keel, can't point, slow.
Not self righting, has a flat bottom, if it went over, big trouble!
Only 3 people max. Very small cockpit.
Here's what I want:
4 people able to daysail
Cabin my wife and I could overnight in
Able to setup and be on the water quickly, launch at most any boatramp.
Been reading lots, and it seems like 3 boats have risen to the top:
Montgomery 15
Precision 165
Compac legacy
I need to buy used, money is an issue. Hoping to spend less than $5K.
Is the Monty15 able to handle 4 people daysailing?
Any other boats I've missed?
Thanks!

[jeadstx]

You might want to also check out the O'Day/Stuart Mariner. O'Day was the original builder in 1963 and the boats have been in continuous production to present making getting replacement parts, if needed, easy. The current builder Stuart Marine. They are good solid trailerable boats with a strong class association http://www.usmariner.org/

Boat is 19'-2" LOA, 185 SqFt of sail, large cockpit, 165 pound centerboard with 200 pounds of ballast (Stuart boats have a lighter CB with more ballast). SCA has reviewed them in the past.

John

[wdscobie]

Montgomery 15

a two person boat and maybe three in light wind. with three she will squat BAD in the transom and sail below her abilities. excellent sailing boat on all points of sail. known especially for being weatherly going into the wind. one even sailed to Hawaii from Cali (not recommended). of the three boats has the nicest berth - obstruction free v-berth. no sitting headroom (well almost when on the head).

Precision 165

cockpit is larger than the M15, but not all that comfortable for more than three because of the tiller length and the need to put someone below if the wind comes up. boat shows LOTS of leeway when going to weather as she only has a short shoal keel. quarterberths are narrow. crouching headroom when sitting on quarterberths

Compac legacy

cockpit almost same as the P165. really a three person daysailor (like the P165 with the same need to get someone below if four in boat and wind comes up. as she has a centerboard goes to weather well. quarterberths are narrow. crouching headroom when sitting on quarterberths

Hoping to spend less than $5K.

any of these boats will cost $5K if in good condition.

for a $5K M15 you will need to look hard and they go at a premium. All $5K M15s will have been build between 1983 and 1994. newer M15s, starting in 1999, will go for $10K+. most M15s are on west coast and upper midwest. expect to travel to collect the boat ... many have driven 1000s of miles to get an M15.

i'd be surprised if you can find a Legacy for less than $5K (unless the boat is in exceedingly poor condition), as the oldest are only 9 years old.

the Compac and Precision boats are 'east coast boats'.

all three boats can be rigged in about 30 minutes if a couple/persons has a system and stays 'on task'.

Any other boats I've missed?

Montgomery 17. good below space and v-berth is pretty comfortable (drawback is compression post). the quarter berth (some have two) are only usable by young children. this is the best sailing boat of the bunch (boats listed above and below). a good condition boat built between 1974 and 1995 will cost about $5K (yes, same pricing as M15). like the M15 a 'west coast' and 'midwest boat'. will need to drive to collect the boat.

Compac 16. very similar to the P165. same drawback in models that only have shoal keels. quarterberths are narrow, etc. likely find a good boat for less than $5K. an east coast boat, but a lot built so can find throughout the country.

Precision 18. interior is essentially one giant berth. likely the v-berth will be to short. the quarterberths are narrow. older P18 go for about $5K depending on condition. an east coast boat ... more so than the Compac 16.

rigging time for the above three boats is about 35-45 minutes.

and another thing ... likely that any of the above boats with prices below $5K will have sails that 'look good' but are needing to be replaced as they are original to boat and blown out.

[Art Haberland]

how about a Potter?

[Monies]

No help at all here but wanted to comment on Dave Scobie's comment. Dave, you are really, really knowledgeable and absolutely right on with all you said about each boat. I am impressed. You do your homework.

You aren't going to get one for the kind of money you have but I especially like Dave's boat, the Sage 17 and did consider most seriously buying one. Having sailed in a lot of boats myself, I'd say Dave's analysis is right on, not sure you will find a trailerable boat that can do what you want, although I do have an oversized trailerable one out in my Boat Palace shed that Mike rebuilt and restored I can sell for that which will do all you want and has full galley, a head, etc. but only headroom if you are short! it is however, 26 feet long and pushes the edge on trailerable, but is.

Have put back about the amount of $$$$ you have just in rebuilding here including professional sail restoration. I am going to convince myself here and end up keeping her and putting down in the marina!

Love, Jackie Monies "Cowboy Cookies" Scamp and a small fleet

[wdscobie]

how about a Potter?

i didn't cover the Potters as they have the smallest cockpits and not 'four person boats' as defined by the OP.

Potter 15 is a one person boat, or a two person daysailer if two know how to keep their weight correctly balanced (IMO). I cannot get into the cabin at 5'11" and 220lbs. no real ballast, just weight of the steel daggerboard, and will 'go turtle'. the boat relies on form stability that becomes liability if boat goes over. easiest of the bunch to launch, tow and rig. not a fast sailor nor goes to weather well when seas greater than 1'. can find them at very low cost ... much below $5K for a boat 10 or more years old.

the Potter 19 is easy to launch as she is a daggerboard boat. cockpit is small ... smaller than all but the Potter 15. has the largest cabin of the bunch; but the v-berth is SHORT and the quarterberths are narrow and i find them difficult to get in/out. sails well until the seas come up as her hull shape tends to pound going to weather when seas greater than 1' (as noted above with Potter 15). with daggerboard down i've never heard of one going turtle; but the boat relies on form stability more than the weight of the steel daggerboard. have heard stories of owners putting up sails at dock without putting down daggerboard ... boats went on their sides when the wind gusted. of all the boats she takes the longest and most difficult to rig - lots of shrouds and a heavy mast. easy to find a good boat at or below the $5K price point.

a very good thing about the Potters is the owner's groups are WONDERFULLY helpful and supportive. in addition the owner of International Marine, Ken Lang, is very helpful in supporting the owners ... even boats he didn't build.

there was a few years of 'bad run' of Potter boats built (mid 1980s i believe) ... WAY way way before Ken purchased the company ... talk with the owners groups for things to look for and the date ranges for the 'problem boats'.

[Art Haberland]

personally, if I were after a small cruising boat, I would be looking at something like a Cape Cod Style catboat. Big cockpits, wide cabins with plenty of room, and only one sail to worry about.

[wdscobie]

personally, if I were after a small cruising boat, I would be looking at something like a Cape Cod Style catboat.

a large cockpit day sailor catboat you can't go wrong with the Com-Pac Picnic Cat, Sunday Cat or Sun Cat Daysailor. all are EASY to rig. sail well (within limitation of a gaff rigged catboat).

finding one for $5K would be a challenge ... these boats go for a premium cost and one available at $5K is likely in POOR condition.

[Charlie P. (NY)]

What can you tow and what type waters do you sail?

I'd give another vote for the Stewart Mariner 19.

Of you list I have not owned but have been around or sailed in Montgomery 15 and Precision 165s. As noted - the Precision has a roomier cockpit and perhaps a little less in weight/durability.

More cockpit/less cabin and possibly better light air performance than the M15 would be a Gloucester 16.

Thinking outside the box . . .

For fast set-up and a big cockpit I would recommend the sailboat I do have - the Florida Bay Mud Hen 17. I can arrive at a boat ramp and be sailing in 15 minutes. 10 if we don't have a lot of food and gear to pack from the car into the boat. Downside is the cabin is a canvas "perambulator" hood that has to be erected, though it sails with it if you wish. Upside is the whole boat is a cockpit. We've daysailed sailed six adults. Two are luxurious.

Does well in light air, and in heavy it isn't bad. Over 25 knot winds I admit I'd rather be in the Montgomery 15.

Bimini and dodger up for rain or shade (or canal motoring).


Floorboards can be lowered for sitting or raised for sprawling/sleeping.


Buttoned down for travel

[johnstephany65]

Excellent stuff here, thank you so much! There is a M15 in Wisconsin going for $4000, I'm going to take a look at it Sunday. (I live in Madison, Wi., surrounded by awesome sailing lakes!) I didn't consider the Potter because I read all the things Dave mentioned: 1-2 people max, can turtle. I thought of the M17 and Precision 18, but they're starting to get big and take longer to rig. It would be very infrequent when I sail with 4, mostly sailing with 2. I would like to be able to rig the boat alone in 1/2 hour or so. And something no longer than 18', so that would preclude the lovely sounding boat above, sorry!