self steering

The place to discuss SCAMP (Small Craft Advisor Magazine Project), our 11' 11" micro minicruiser.

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brucemoffatt
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Location: Adelaide, South Australia

self steering

Post by brucemoffatt »

Hi folks,

I'm still a long way from finishing my SCAMP and the time in the shed invariably results in me day dreaming. So I was thinking about self-steering on a SCAMP and wondering what might be practical options.

I saw that John Welsford said something about trimming the sails, lashing the tiller and sitting the crew weight in the right spot and it should stay on track. Those who have sailed a SCAMP (especially John), how light to the touch is the tiller and how responsive? I'm assuming fairly so on both counts. If that's the case, what do you think of a sheet-to-tiller rig for those occasions when the weather is OK and a coffee or meal should be made?

I'm in two minds about any self-steering system that could result in the boat sailing on over the horizon should the crew slip overboard (thinking toilet occasions) but maybe a lifeline or trip line or dragged length of safety line might convince me to rig up something.

I'd love to hear opinions so I can continue to day dream about sailing away around the coast to far flung towns...
SCAMP # 179 'Romana' under construction in Largs, South Australia

http://www.amazon.com/Drift-ebook/dp/B008N9ESKS
https://www.createspace.com/4187764 (paperback)
pocketyacht
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Re: self steering

Post by pocketyacht »

Hello Bruce
I will take a stab at your questions below. I have had the pleasure of helming three different SCAMP's. This bit of knowledge base coupled with years of cruising in small boats and dinghies has helped me learn a little that may be of value to you.
brucemoffatt wrote:Hi folks,

I'm still a long way from finishing my SCAMP and the time in the shed invariably results in me day dreaming. So I was thinking about self-steering on a SCAMP and wondering what might be practical options.
I saw that John Welsford said something about trimming the sails, lashing the tiller and sitting the crew weight in the right spot and it should stay on track. Those who have sailed a SCAMP (especially John), how light to the touch is the tiller and how responsive? I'm assuming fairly so on both counts. If that's the case, what do you think of a sheet-to-tiller rig for those occasions when the weather is OK and a coffee or meal should be made?

I'm in two minds about any self-steering system that could result in the boat sailing on over the horizon should the crew slip overboard (thinking toilet occasions) but maybe a lifeline or trip line or dragged length of safety line might convince me to rig up something.

I'd love to hear opinions so I can continue to day dream about sailing away around the coast to far flung towns...
***********
SCAMP has a very nicely balanced helm with just the right amount of weather helm as long as you have your sail trimmed properly for the course you are on. You can steer her nicely with one finger most of the time.

1. First off I suggest SCAMP should be set up with a telescoping hiking stick or at least a hiking stick. Although I know this is not self steering it is a legitimate way to sail more efficiently (SCAMP should be sailed flat) and to allow you to move forward in the cockpit to retrieve items, etc. My SCAMP's will both have hiking sticks.

2. I use a very simple tiller self steering system that on first blush looks a bit less than elegant but it has proven invaluable and functional over a bunch of miles in a number of different dinghies I have cruised. The secret to whatever system you choose is to have a little play built in and make sure the system can be quickly disengaged.

I don't believe a manufactured tiller tamer type system is necessary on a SCAMP but one can certainly be used. The system I like is engaged all the time, is highly adjustable (relying only on a selection of shock cords of different lengths and strengths) and mentioned not elegant but fool proof. I like absolute simple on small boats. There are other methods if one thinks through the question. Let me know if you want further detail on my set up as there are a few key details in the set up.

3. Respectfully small boat sailors shouldn't relieve themselves over the side unless in very light air if they have a self steering system engaged. There are far better methods. I reckon more solo sailors may have been lost at sea relieving themselves over the side than for any other reason.

You can drag a line if you have a self steering set up engaged. But be aware that getting back to the boat and then getting your hand up over the transom while she is moving to disengage a self steering will be extremely difficult if nigh impossible. After the first failed attempt your strength will likely be diminished by about half after each successive try. Be careful. SCAMP is much higher aft than many small boats her size or even larger making the task even more daunting. Think through all of this carefully and have a trip line hanging over (or dragging in the water) or easily accessible on the small transom deck.

4. If using self steering on SCAMP wear a real harness and not a made up harness or a line around your waist. No jack line will be needed instead you can clip to a dedicated pad eye (backed and through bolted).

I once conducted tests of a an 18' 6" Cape Dory Typhoon I was taking to sea for a long spin. I had just mounted a new Hasler SP self steering gear on her and thought it best to test getting back aboard while under way. I was an extremely fit 19 year old as I had been in training for solo sailing at sea. It was a light air day. I was trailing a line and wearing only shorts (less drag than full clothing or foul weather gear). The boat was moving at perhaps 2 knots. I couldn't get back aboard. I had a friend aboard, he tripped the Hasler and I climbed back in very sobered by the experience. Later I set sail with a harness and jack line set up. With the Hasler engaged I gladly wore the harness feeling quite vulnerable without it, a bit akin to the feeling of driving without a seat belt.

5. You can set SCAMP to be remote control steered from in the cuddy. It is easy to do.

6. You can go with a simple sheet to tiller arrangement, a system like I use or one of your own design. Coupled with proper sail trim and crew placement you can get SCAMP to self steer for periods of time.

Happy Holidays Bruce,
howard
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Steve
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Re: self steering

Post by Steve »

Howard, which hiking sticks would you use?

As far as self steering, the one on #6 works very well, and can be left in place, giving a bit of resistance to the helm, and allowing you to go hands free for a short time without being locked down, as well as allowing for course adjustments. For a manufactured unit, the Tiller Clutch is in a class by itself-great design and bulletproof construction.
kenjamin
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Re: self steering

Post by kenjamin »

A few months ago Woodenboat had an article about low cost rope steering on small boats. Some of the examples looked like they would be easy to adapt to SCAMP. It's not self steering but is a way to sometimes get crew weight where it needs to be for optimum performance. It also offers a way for us trolling for fish to have both hands free for fishing. For most SCAMPs a hiking stick is lighter and less expensive but there are some of us that just have to mess with alternate ways of doing things. In my case, I've taken a chunk of flotation out of the stern with the inboard motor mount and then placed a heavy 47 lbs. outboard there to make her even more tail heavy. For sailing I could pull the motor and move it forward for better trim but it would be better (and easier) if we could leave the motor kicked up with it securely clamped on the inboard motor mount and just move the crew more forward. Rope steering could accomplish that but at the lost of tiller feel. To be honest, I'm just grateful I'll still have something to mess with after my SCAMP, Gabrielle, is complete. I hope to glue on the cabin roof today and the decks are done!
HappyDog
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Re: self steering

Post by HappyDog »

Howard,
I would certainly like the details of your self-steering rig.
Cheers,
Charlie
Johnny Walker
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Re: self steering

Post by Johnny Walker »

On ketch rigged #24 I use a .50 cent shop clamp (from ACE) mounted under MayFly's tiller to hold her steady while going forward. I pee in a bucket, drag a floating 3/4" polypro line (with a large eye spiced in the dragging in), and trim the main for balance. A variation of this served me well for long-distance solo days of the past (circa '70's). I'm still here, but maybe just lucky! But keep going, I love this conversation. Johnny
pocketyacht
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Re: self steering

Post by pocketyacht »

Self steering is an important conversation.

It is both a blessing and a potential safety issue for all sailors who use it regardless of size of boat.

Many of us dream and these dreams have us as our better selves sailing over some horizon, perhaps solo. Yet it may be the case that some of us haven't yet done so and therein lies the problem, gaining the requisite experience between being relatively new to sailing, skilled at day sailing only or perhaps we are coming from big boats and are not used to the quick motions of small boats.

SCAMP is a strong contender for title of one of the best or the best "very safe under 12 ft open cruising dinghy" or something like this. This said boats aren't safe, sailors are. We must must recognize that a small just like a large boat boat rigged for self steering can adroitly sail away from us on a local lake or open ocean in both light or heavy air.

Don't let SCAMP's capability get you in too deep. Appreciate her inherent ability and take learning her in steps to gain needed skills and experience over time. Choose the conditions you sail in wisely.

Thoughtfulness, preparation and heeding words of experienced sailors like John here and others can make a huge difference in your future experiences aboard SCAMP.

Steve is right on the Tiller Clutch, it is a fine device and one (like my set up) that must be used with caution.

I apologize for topic drift here:

Jump overboard sometime and try to swim even a few feet or a couple of yards back to a boat that is only drifting away not even sailing, it is sobering. Trailing a poly line is a great idea if use you self steering.

Once you have caught the boat try getting back aboard, it is very hard to do and not just on SCAMP, pretty much on any small boat. The manual recommends a foot stirrup for SCAMP. I consider it an integral part of her design please consider it realizing you may never use it. I cannot speak for John Welsford here but think he would agree.

If you try to crawl back aboard and SCAMP happens to go over and turtle (hard to do and likely caused by the sailor) you can rely on the finger holds the design now calls to be routed into the skeg. I know these work because I have used them on two other boats I have owned. Don't leave these out of your build because you think they might cause turbulence, they are of negligible impact. Passive and redundant safety is good. Like stirrups you will most likely never use them but if you do you will be thankful you have them.

Respectfully to all who read here. Please be safe and stick to the multi linked safety elements inherent in the design. Many informed minds have thought this boat through.
howard
Johnny Walker wrote:On ketch rigged #24 I use a .50 cent shop clamp (from ACE) mounted under MayFly's tiller to hold her steady while going forward. I pee in a bucket, drag a floating 3/4" polypro line (with a large eye spiced in the dragging in), and trim the main for balance. A variation of this served me well for long-distance solo days of the past (circa '70's). I'm still here, but maybe just lucky! But keep going, I love this conversation. Johnny
Last edited by pocketyacht on Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:19 am, edited 4 times in total.
pocketyacht
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Re: self steering

Post by pocketyacht »

Steve
I would have to check at my boat shop in the Great Lakes as I have many, most quite dated but all still very serviceable. There are a bunch on the market that would work just fine. Just be sure to get one no longer than the tiller (in the retracted or non telescoped position) so it can be stowed in the supplied clip on top of the tiller. Mount it aft of a normal hand hold position, ie leave room for your hand at the forward end of the tiller (mount the hiking stick about 8 inches or so aft). Hope this helps. A hand made wood hiking stick would work just fine too. I use both on my other boats. Mirrors for example have a standard wood hiking stick spec'd in the design and kit.
Steve wrote:Howard, which hiking sticks would you use?

As far as self steering, the one on #6 works very well, and can be left in place, giving a bit of resistance to the helm, and allowing you to go hands free for a short time without being locked down, as well as allowing for course adjustments. For a manufactured unit, the Tiller Clutch is in a class by itself-great design and bulletproof construction.
Lachie88
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Re: self steering

Post by Lachie88 »

If you want to delve into self steering, an excellent little book " Self Steering for sailing craft " by John Letcher. I had a copy about 30 or 40 years ago. It handles the various methods for small boat like the Scamp although some are based on the jib. I found it an excellent grounding on the subject.
kanusport
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Re: self steering

Post by kanusport »

Tiller clutch works great on my scamp
https://wavefrontmarine.com/
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